“EU e-mobility targets are not achievable from the industry”, says Forsee Power’s CEO Christophe Gurtner. Our interview

Below, an interview we published on the May 2024 issue of Sustainable Bus magazine.

The rise of electric buses, the intricacies of supply chain management, and the competitive landscape of the e-mobility market are just a few of the critical issues shaping the future of transportation.

Additionally, the development of European battery production, the complexities of retrofitting conventional vehicles, and the potential impacts of European Union regulations on the phase-out of internal combustion engines are pivotal topics in this field.

Focusing on the perspective of a battery system supplier, we delve into these matters with insights from Christophe Gurtner, CEO of Forsee Power, who offers a perspective on the company’s strategies and future directions.

We have been visiting the company in February. Forsee Power specializes in battery packs for both first-life and second-life applications, and had experienced a 54% growth in revenue from 2022 to 2023 (up to €171.4 million). Forsee’s preferred (but not only) cell supplier partners are LG, CALB, and Toshiba. Looking forward, Forsee Power aims to achieve equilibrium in EBITDA by 2024, with a projected 15% positive EBITDA by 2028. Plans for expansion include scaling up production in Poitiers (today installed capacity of 2 GWh) to 4 GWh by 2028, alongside developments in the company’s other facilities in Poland, China, India, and the USA.

The targets that have been defined by European policymakers are not achievable from the industry. We have to face reality. There could be some postponement of the targets, as they are so drastic. But even if some targets will be postponed, we don’t feel we’ll be impacted by this, there is so much business to be done. It’s just matching the decisions with the reality of the industry. 

Christophe Gurtner, CEO of Forsee Power

Christophe Gurtner, e-buses, the future of e-buses

Christophe Gurtner, e-buses looks like are covering a big share in Forsee Power’s sales…

City buses, with their relatively short distances, are ideal candidates for battery applications, especially considering their typical routes are under 200 kilometers. For intercity travel, where distances are longer, the viability depends on the availability of charging infrastructure. If daily charging is possible, batteries can be a feasible option. However, for long-distance coaches covering 500 to 800 kilometers per day, embedding sufficient batteries is technically possible but becomes economically challenging. In such cases, alternative solutions like hydrogen hybrid technology, which is still embedding batteries, might be more suitable. 

Nonetheless, the market for city buses or short intercity and suburban transportation (both buses and trucks) is such a big market that just focusing on that will feed our business for the coming ten years. We’d better address this markets rather than going for mid to long distance, more complex in terms of economically payback.

With regard to supply chain management and safety, truly hot topic lately, how do you build up your supply chain and which is your approach towards partners?

We need tested and qualified suppliers, it needs one to three years to decide to select a product from a supplier. Our approach involves establishing close, long-term relationships with suppliers through framework agreements, at least for five years. We qualified several suppliers but we have preferred suppliers that can bring us the right technology at the right cost and in sufficient volume, in order to be able to serve the demand. These preferred suppliers are integral to our supply chain, and we maintain intimate relations with them over many years to ensure continuity and reliability. Despite global crises like the Ukraine conflict in 2022, we’ve managed to maintain stable supply thanks to these robust partnerships.

Batteries, about the European supply base for cells…

What are your thoughts on the intentions or works underway on a EU level in order to create a European cell supply base?

We’re actively engaged with different companies that are establishing European gigafactories for battery production. We sincerely hope that these company will be able to produce in the coming years as it’d simplify our supply chain. However, these European companies face stiff competition from established players. The fight will be tough, we hope to have some European winning newcomers and we’ll of course balance our supply among different companies. It’s the same in the US: we are in contact with future North American gigafactories that might be supplying our business in the region.

You have been sharing promising figures and the market for e-mobility is clearly on a rise. However, Forsee Power’s performance on the stock exchange show a decrease in shares’ value… is the market growing at a slowest pace than the expected? Or is’ a matter of macro economics?

Since we made our IPO two and an half years ago, we delivered the performances we had announced. Unluckily, in spite of that, the share value of the company is indeed declining. Today there is a macro situation where financial investors do not invest in small and medium tech companies in Europe. We are dealing with this macro trend and we need to be patient, keep doing what we are doing. Macro trends change and we’ll be benefiting from this.

Retrofit, European elections, R&D

Retrofit is among your areas of business. It’s much easier saying than doing. It’s not just a matter of simply replacing a conventional drivetrain with an electric one. Which are the main challenges and constraints?

The difficulty of retrofit is not at a battery level. The difficult part is having mature retrofit companies who develop know-how on retrofit. Most of the players are startups. As time goes, these companies will gain in maturity. We are working with many retrofit companies, but we need to find the most mature ones that are able to make the right retrofit kit and are able to have vehicles with retrofit kit approved. We need to work together with such companies and help them grow to become mature enough so that we can sell them our retrofit batteries.

Do you fear that the new European Parliament might delay the phase-out of ICE?

(editor’s take: the interview was realized and originally published before the European election that took place on 8-9th June 2024)

Out of political comments, I can say that, practically speaking, the targets that have been defined by European policymakers are not achievable from the industry. We have to face reality. There could be some postponement of the targets, as they are so drastic. But even if some targets will be postponed, we don’t feel we’ll be impacted by this, there is so much business to be done. It’s just matching the decisions with the reality of the industry. 

R&D, what are you working on at the moment?

We are working on four sides. One is making battery with always higher energy density, second is having longer-life batteries so that TCO of vehicles can benefit. Third battle is of course to reduce costs. Fourth battle is about data: it’s really a data war, it’s crucial to use data from deployment of batteries on vehicles to learn and optimize, sharing these data with vehicles’ users. Batteries are the heart. Performances of electric vehicles depend on the health of battery.